There were vows and rings. A best man and a maid of honor. Toasts and hugs and kisses. Brats and burgers, stories and laughter.
And there was love. Abundant love. Exuberant love. Joyful, celebratory, smiling, laughing, weeping, I-want-to-spend-the-rest-of-my-life-with-you love.
The ceremony took place on a dock next to a pond. The couple wore tee-shirts and shorts, sneakers and flip flops. The preacher tucked his dress shirt into a pair of farmer’s overalls.
Two friends of mine, two women, got married on a dock in a small town in Iowa on Friday night. They slipped rings on each other’s fingers and vowed to love and cherish one another in sickness and in health, until death does them part. Their loved ones gathered around, teary and smiling, as the orange sun slipped behind the pine trees and a pair of geese honked and flapped into the azure sky.
The brief ceremony complete, my friends stepped into a wicker basket and were lifted into the Iowa sky beneath a roaring flame and a canopy of color. They rode off, gliding over the rolling cornfields and into the sunset. It was like something out of a movie.
I stood on the edge of the woods smiling like a fool. And I watched the balloon float soundlessly away, until it was just a speck in the vast, vast sky.
First of all, I love the minister in overalls. Secondly, I’m jealous of the balloon. One day, I shall fly away in a balloon as the sun sets over the trees. So glad you were there for them (and I wondered why you were in Iowa!).
I always enjoy reading your column but this one not so much. Was disappointed and sorry to hear your beliefs about homosexual marriage as the Scriptures teach otherwise.
I appreciate you expressing your views here, Carolyn.
The balloon was pretty cool – I seriously need to to book myself a trip on one of those someday.
Michelle as leaders we are held to a higher standard of accountability for our actions and how we lead others. What God calls sin is sin and “Jesus died on the cross for all sin.” The “Bible” tells us from “Genesis to Revelation,” what sin is and “all sin leads to death.” Michelle you’re not speaking truth on what you’ve written, She said, “I do,” it goes against the “Bible.” As writers we can always have an opinion but anything written against the “Bible,” like your post is a lie and we need to call it for what it is “a lie.” “Jesus came to bear witness to the truth and we know everyone on the side of truth is going to listen to Jesus.” John 18:37.
I’ve read your post a few months ago and have spent much time in prayer in how to respond. Sadly what you wrote was not out of the “Bible,” but a World View the same view that crucified Jesus.
Michelle,
As always this is beautifully written. I do, along with Carolyn, believe that Scripture teaches homosexuality is a sin. However, it also teaches that I am a sinner. So, from one sinner to another, I just want you to know that you are still one of my favorite writers, even though we may disagree on some things. Blessings to you, my sister.
L
In agreement here, Lyli, from one sinner to another.
Thank you for your graceful response, Lyli. I appreciate your candor and your love.
Michelle, thank you for sharing the beautiful story of our friend’s wedding. If only we had an updated version of scripture, I’m sure God would have said something along the lines of “Thou shalt not write snarky comments on other people’s blogs”. Alas, God has better things to do with his/her time than updating an antiquated version of what supposedly is his “word”, like celebrating the love these two have found.
I appreciate your comment, Kristen, and your friendship. I do have to say, though, that I need to be open to all comments here. Most of my readers are also my friends (albeit online friends, but still friends), and even though we do disagree on this topic, I do respect their opinion and encourage all voices here. This is a very touchy subject, and I knew exactly what I was getting into here when I posted this story. I wrote it because I believe God is love and Jesus is love. And I cannot in my heart believe that They look down at Ari and Michaella, who love each other as deeply and respectfully as any traditionally married couple, with anything but love. And I also wrote because I want to be authentic and honest with my readers. They should know where I stand on this. But they are also entitled to their own stance on it as well.
Thank you for coming by and commenting, Kristen. You know I love you!
Really, Kristen? I personally think these “updated versions” of Scripture are what contributes to the misinterpretations of what God originally said. HIS Word (Not Her Word) does not change like the shifting shadows of today’s world. What was wrong THEN continues to be wrong TODAY. And, so far, I am not seeing any “snarky” comments; just people expressing what the Scripture says, in respectful and loving ways. I don’t hate Michelle for her support of this couple, nor do I hate this couple. I just don’t believe gay marriage is right because…God said so. Period. We can re-interpret all we want to fit the new world we live in. It doesn’t make it accurate and properly interpreted. I say the same about adultery, alcoholism, gossip, lying, murder, lust…..It seems to me that God is pretty black & white when it comes down to it. Why are we always trying to delve deeper, seeking to make “abominations” (His Word, not mine) in His sight more palatable to the times we’re in?
Tattoos? Doesn’t the Scripture say something about that? Divorce? Until DEATH do you part? I’m confused. Please explain.
Really??? Michelle you have a really strange point of you on the Scriptures, exactly like this lady “Kristen” who says that only people agreeing with what you say should comment. Oh wow, nice point of views…
Absolutely anyone is welcome to comment here on any post, Cara – I mean that. I welcome all voices.
Hi Michelle…..I must say that I was surprised to learn the ‘happy couple’ consisted of two women, especially after seeing the top photo of a definite man and woman’s hands holding. I feel it was a tad misleading.
The “wedding” sounds lovely and simple and blissfully fairy-tale-ish, but I was rather floored to read this from you. I certainly understand the commission to love all others as we love ourselves. And if this couple is ‘un-saved’, they are only doing what seems right and natural to them. We cannot fault them for that. But please don’t tell me they are believers, followers of Christ. Gay marriage is not ordained of God. And we need not make apology for that. HE said it…not us. But He does love them, even in their misguided-ness. And you showed love by being there.
I absolutely respect your comments on this, Jillie, and thank you for offering them in grace and love.
Jillie, take a second look at the photos, if you would. Michelle is good not to argue the fine points here, but let me step in on her behalf. It looks to me like the hands in the top photo belong to Michelle’s friends, not a man and a woman. I don’t see where Michelle misled.
Some of us have physical features that may or may not fit others’ idealized gender norms and it doesn’t do us well to jump to conclusions.
Michelle, as I said privately, thanks for sharing this story.
I appreciate this, Lyla.
Sorry, Lyla. I see it now. I did jump to conclusions about the photo.
I think tha the first picture is of the couple that got married. If you look at both pictures, same clothes and everything. 🙂
Hi Jillie,
Just to clarify, I had no intention to mislead with the photo. The close-up of the hands is indeed of my friends Michaella and Ari, just after they said their vows. I will say that I set the stage with words in the first few sentences, because I wanted to paint a true picture of love BEFORE I mentioned the gender – because to me, their love is the important point here. But no, I didn’t intentionally try to dupe any readers, and I’m sorry that you felt misled.
It’s ok, Michelle. I was wrong about the photo. You weren’t misleading. Please forgive.
No problem. I just didn’t want you to think I was being duplicitous! We are good — thanks for coming back, Jillie.
Michelle, thank you for writing this piece. And you’re right it is all about love. Love of a partner to whom you can make a life long commitment. Love for a state that has renounced the existence and limited the rights of gays and lesbians based upon the simple fact of who we love. Not who we choose to love, but just who we love. Because, ask yourselves, folks – when was the last time you consciously chose with whom it was that you fell in love? Again, Michelle, I want to thank you for having the courage to publish this article here, and for standing in your truth.
I really like your point about love, Penny – about how we don’t pick a person and declare, “That one. I’m going to fall in love with that one.” Love happens. We don’t decide who we fall in love with. I just can’t get over the love part. I know what the Bible says. But I also know that God IS Love. And if that’s true, which I believe in my heart it is, then how can He look upon love, real love, with disdain?
Thank you for coming by today, Penny. I appreciate the support.
Michelle, thank you for offering this space for those who agree and disagree with you. My intent was not to say “don’t post if you don’t agree” but to question why people would go out of their way to negatively (as I read it) comment on something so obviously special to you. I, to a fault, am very protectitve of my friends and apologize if I offended anyone on here. I am obviously not built for the world of blogs 🙂
Thank you, Kristen. And believe me sweetie, I’m not built for the world of blogs either! I know you were expressing your opinions out of love for both me and Ari and Michaella, and I appreciate that.
Love is Love and I believe in that. I am not sure how I feel about same sex marriage, but it is not up to me to judge or comment. This is truly “untrodden ground.” I think I mostly don’t understand. And that is ok. There is much in life that I don’t get!
Thank you for openning the lines of communication! It is good for all of us to read the differing opinions – it shines a light in dark corners!
m.
I appreciate this so much, Marg. And I am with you – there is so much that I don’t get. Another commenter left a note on my Facebook wall that said something to the effect of: I really can’t make sense of it all, but I’m good with letting Jesus sort it all out later. That sounds good to me.
Love rules…every time. Blessings to you Michelle.
Thanks, Sue. I appreciate you.
Thank you, sweet Michelle, whose love has made her brave. Thank you for extending a cyber-hug to my brother and his partner and all the others…which the careful reader will notice is, rather wisely, all this post has done.
I, for one, refuse to turn this issue into the sword that the conversation about Christ has to die upon. I’m so tired of the hypocrisy and divisiveness. When there are as many gay couples in our pews as there are obese people, we’ll know we are no longer sending a double message.
Love to you!
Thank you for sharing a bit of your story, Cathy – I so appreciate that.
And I really like your point about this issue not being the one Christ has to die upon.
Nicely stated, Cathy!
A good friend of mine from high school married a woman in August. She and I went through a lot together, including losing our moms within two months. We joke that I went Catholic and she came out of the closet. When I saw her wedding photos, I looked at them as an editor, the way I’d look at photos in our annual bridal issue. I just broke down in tears. The photos were so beautiful, especially the one of her dad coming to her with arms outstretched. I knew how long and hard it was for him to get there.
What a beautiful story, Megan. I love that about the dad. I admit, I would not want either of my children to come out as gay. Not because I consider it wrong, but because it almost always guarantees a more difficult life. As parents, we always want the easiest life for our kids.
The most joyful and emotional part of this particular wedding was seeing their family members and friends there in support and love – and not all of them find it easy to accept, that I know. And not all of them were there, which made me sad for my friends, too.
A good post, Michelle!
Obviously, as illustrated by above comments, you’ve touched a sensitive subject associated with strong personal convictions by many people, from various perspectives.
Genuine love, respect, goodwill, friendship and blessings are, I believe, always appropriate.
Thank you, for sharing!
Thanks so much for commenting, Joe. I knew going into this that it was going to be sensitive and perhaps heated. I’m grateful for the kindness and respect everyone has shown here, including you, my friend.
It’s a shame that two women think they have married. They need to study God’s word and know that he made Woman for Man.
I appreciate your opinion here, Susan.
I’m with Deidra on the balloon and overalls. You’re a good friend, Michelle, and I’m sure it meant a lot to them for you to be there.
Imagine someone who entered a partnership like this, some years ago, and who eventually came to the terrifying, inescapable conviction that gender matters; that the created order matters; that two women together, two men together, and a man and a woman together are three fundamentally different entities, and that God does not bless the first two as He does the third. The love is genuine; the expression has constraints that are, though we may not ever understand it on this side, for our own good. Obedience to the God who made them may call them to some painful, difficult decisions. They make them, and find there is light on the other side, and grace — not the cheap grace Bonhoeffer wrote about and so many in liberal-trending denominations are eager to extend, but the grace of redeeming a loving and well-boundaried friendship; the grace of “Now go, and sin no more”; the grace of forgiveness that was bought with the price of the cross.
There are way more folks like this than you’d ever know from the media. Likewise for people who discern same-sex desires and want to live a life of holy obedience to what we understand as God’s design for sexuality. Also true for countless single men and women who would like to marry and haven’t found a partner. We want support. We want the church to be family to us. But to say “it’s OK with God, really” is, as someone else pointed out recently (in Touchstone in Hunter Baker’s March 18 column), to remove hope and faith in God’s redemptive, transformative power.
Here’s an interesting thing. Theologically, I sit with the folks who take an orthodox view. But when they shake the Bible at me, or toss out the “a” word (thus perhaps committing the abomination mentioned in Proverbs 6:19b), I’m going to make a beeline out of their pew. I assume I probably can’t ever trust them with the kinds of things the body of Christ is called to confess to one another and bear with one another. They’ll tend to pick at the wood in my eyes and miss the stuff in their own. But Michelle, I feel comfortable being the church with you. I see a life appealingly changed by the gospel, which is exactly the kind I’m trying to live.
You have given us, me, a lot to think about here, Abbey. Thank you so much for taking the time to construct such a thoughtful and well-reasoned comment. And for adding another voice to this discussion – the voice of someone who has been there, is there, and has wrestled with this in a very personal way.
I hear what you are saying, I do. The thing I don’t get, though, is how God, who I believe is so loving, all-loving, would require that a person live without the kind of love that is a lifelong partnership. That He would deny a person, one of His beloved children, that kind of love in favor of obedience. I hear what you are saying – that God sometimes calls His children to make difficult, painful decisions and choices. But I don’t know. If that’s the case, and it very well may be, it just sucks. I mean really, isn’t that a rip-off? That only some of us get to experience the lifelong love of a monogamous partnership and the rest of us … well… too bad? That because of the way you were born, you lose out?
I’m grateful for this conversation today. I think it’s good to talk about this hard stuff in a reasonable way. And I’m grateful for you, Abbey. For your story. For your friendship. For the gift of being the church with you.
Well, we disagree on the “born that way” assumption. (And please note my current self disagrees with my former self.) But in a roundabout way, you’ve brought us to a problem in the church universal, and that is the idealizing (and perhaps idolizing) of lifelong marriage, and undervaluing of Christian friendship. I think the reality is that a huge segment of the population will not experience lifelong couplehood. Some singles who want to marry never will; some people (regardless of who they partner with) have serial relationships, not lifelong; infidelity happens. There are long-married folk who wish they weren’t. And, for all its joys, for most people, lifelong partnership is also hard work.
In my own church, in so much programming and language from the pulpit, you’d think all we have are couples and families. And when there is a singles group, often the assumption is that its reason to exist is to help singles out of that condition. (Yet we follow a single man!) But being single sometimes means a great gift of time and availability. It means we get to pour love, time and energy into a lot of friendships and extended family instead of one primary relationship. For more on the neglected subject of friendship, I recommend the “Friendship” chapter of C.S. Lewis’ “The Four Loves.”
There are things in life that suck. There are things that are seemingly rip-offs, though that may be in the eye of the beholder. I think sometimes it requires examining my assumptions; sometimes learning to be grateful for what I have instead of lamenting the lack of what I want; and always remembering that in the rough patches, the deepest pains, the darkest nights, Jesus, the great healer, is there. To quote, way out of context, the theologian Mick Jagger: “You can’t always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you just might find you get what you need.”
Again, much to think about here. First off, I apologize for the “born that way” assumption. It is an assumption on my part, although from what (little) I’ve read, homosexuality seems more in the biological camp rather than the environmental camp. But again, I am speaking way out of my area of expertise here.
It’s funny to suddenly find myself in the position of “idealizing” lifelong partnerships, because I’ve always been up front about the challenges of marriage (I wrote a post not too long ago about that for Prodigal Magazine). I hear what you are saying about Christian friendship, but that seems like a different topic altogether (maybe I need to read that C.S. Lewis chapter?). Singles aren’t single just because the Bible tells them to be single. If they had the opportunity for marriage or a relationship, they could say yes. If they had the opportunity to say yes to a lifelong, committed relationship, the Bible and other Christians would not hold them back. But gay people aren’t even offered the choice. It’s an automatic no.
You are right. Suckiness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. I’m typically big on feeling “ripped off” – it’s been an issue for me for a long time! 😉
Your theologian quote made me laugh. But yeah, there’s truth there, too. Preach it, Mick.
I didn’t mean you are idealizing lifelong partnerships; I think the church does. I’ll check out your Prodigal post.
You’re right that friendship is a tangent. I bring it up because it is a way to meet our innate needs for community, companionship, connection, without sexualizing the relationship.
Thanks for giving me much to think about, too.
Hi
Great dialog here. I have just one thing to say about the “born that way” thing. Are we forgetting about free will? It seems to me that God has given us guidelines to follow and asked for our obedience but he also gave us the ability to choose to obey or not. And if we say that “He made me that way”, doesn’t that make God responsible for our choices?
Whenever someone says they “can’t help it” I often recollect the “thorn” in Paul’s side (which you have written about previously) he bore his burden despite all and bore it without blaming God. I believe he stood firm in his faith, a true example of overcoming or living through the hardship.
Thank you, ladies. Thank you for so beautifully demonstrating how the Body of Christ can lovingly and gracefully disagree with each other on something that is such a deeply passionate topic. This was an amazing discourse to observe. Thank you for Walking Agape. To God be the Glory.
I was just going to mention these things, Abbey, and had not realized you said them…..beautifully. I can’t think of a single thing to add about this aspect of the discussion. Thank you for showing us whatt one life transformed by Christ looks like.
Michelle: As your blog says….you are Graceful and full of grace. Thank you for the way you have handled this topic.
Thank you so much, Lori. I’m grateful for your comments.
Abbey….wow you said it well. So well. And I so appreciate Michelle for allowing an open forum here for every view to be discussed. I know some who as you say have “found the light on the other side” after realizing that there is nothing beyond the power of God. Thank you for expounding on this with love. Always the truth in love. And I agree,
Thank you, Lori. Part of the truth in love is remembering God’s patience and slow work with us, and trusting the . Spirit’s ability to convict a heart.
I appreciate your courage to step out on this one, Michelle. And the grace with which you’re answering both those who agree and disagree. Christians may disagree on what constitutes “love”, but surely we can all agree that Love reigns supreme. Love is always the right choice and the right response. May we live that out in all our words and deeds. Thanks for your example in doing that.
I like you, Lisa!
Never actually met you…but I like how your words seem to always carry wisdom and grace…
I second that, Joe!
You are always so grace-ful in your comments, Lisa. I so appreciate that. And I appreciate your courage in commenting today. I know it’s not a topic a lot of us want to jump into with arms wide open, and believe me, I know it takes courage to even say anything in a dialogue like this!
I really applaud your honesty Michelle, it has been very hard for me to take a stand this year on controversial issues but as I have seen others do it it gives me courage. (My stand was on gun violence and a need for regulations. It was not popular!) I’m still not sure how I feel about gay marriage, but it was tastefully and lovingly written. What struck me most was how you have responded to the critics. Oh my, you so rock it! I’m a health trainer and today I had a student butcher me in a letter to my boss. Not to me… but to my boss! My boss came and got me, had me read it, and requested I write a response back to her letter. Later I was still fuming, and was angry. I realize she was going to be in a skills class with me as her trainer I decided to call her and talk about it. It went well and as I read your responses it was a lesson and example to me in how to respond when criticism comes our way. It was interesting, the scripture reading I did this morning was from Proverbs 15., “A kind answer turns away anger”. Hugs to you sister!
You know what I read these last two days in a row, as I’ve been studying the Book of Ephesians? This, from Chapter 4, in The Message version: “Say only what helps, each word is a gift.” (4:29). What a mantra to live by, eh? Your verse from Proverbs 15 reminds me exactly of that.
Your example of the conversation with the unhappy student is such a great lesson to us all, Gayle. It’s natural to get angry and fume and concoct all sorts of defensive and vengeful responses in our heads. But it’s so much wiser to think before we speak (or write). I’ve made the opposite decision more than once in my life, and I have always regretted it.
Thank you for your kindness and support here. I so appreciate it.
I read this post much earlier today. I have thought about it off and on all day…what I wanted to say, how I felt about the issue. I second Lisa’s comment about love reigning supreme. And I, like Joe, like Lisa even though I’ve never met her either! And you, Michelle, are right about her comments always being graceful!
Back to the subject…I admire your courage Michelle. I am one that does not share my controversial thoughts, political views, etc. very often…almost never. I am probably wrong to be that way; I should have more courage. In fact, I was going to erase that entire last two sentences because someone will probably say I need to stand up for what I believe. But I’ll have some courage and leave it there! I work at a very liberal institution of higher education. I work for the person in charge of the Women’s and Gender Studies Program, she is a lesbian. She has been in a committed relationship for 26 years. I am faced with things that while I do not necessarily agree with, it is my job. A job that I believe the Lord put me in. My boss knows I don’t agree with her lifestyle, but I also have told her she is one of the most ethical people I know. She does the right thing no matter what. She can be counted on to do what she says. Her word is her bond and it is like gold. I love her dearly and I am blessed to be able to work with someone like her. She has taught me much in the three years I have held this job…about people, about justice, about equality.
While I believe homosexuality is a sin, it is merely a public sin. My sins are not so public. They are not so “out there” but I have them…and frankly I would be horrified if you could see all my sins! Why do we, as Christians, find it necessary to decide that some sins are worse than others? My husband is the one that pointed out the PUBLIC sin part and it softened my view.
I cannot believe I am about to hit publish on this comment…but I am. Michelle, I love you. I love your writing. And I TRULY admire your courage.
Oh Mary, I love you so much. Thank you for being brave and writing honestly and gracefully here today. Can I tell you that when I woke up this morning I had a pit of dread, because I was afraid of what I knew had already posted here. It was easy to write it out of love, but it’s harder to stand by my convictions in the face of criticism. This is only one of two times i have written about this issue – I absolutely avoid controversial topics at all costs and never participate in online debates on hot-button topics because I am, at heart, a scaredy-cat. But I just felt so convicted, especially after the wedding this weekend. So I did it. And I have no regrets. At the very least, my readers know where I stand, so I don’t have to feel like I am being inauthentic or not telling the whole story.
What you said here is a question I ask myself time and time again, and I think your husband has hit upon the answer, at least in part: “Why do we, as Christians, find it necessary to decide that some sins are worse than others? My husband is the one that pointed out the PUBLIC sin part and it softened my view.” Thank you for expressing that question and your husband’s reasoning so succinctly.
And thank you so much for adding your wise and honest words to this thread today. Way to go, Miss Brave Mary!
I know that you’re a very respected writer and good one to boot. I also appreciate the intestinal fortitude it took to publish your views on such a controversial issue. It seems that all of us, myself included, want to rewrite the words and meanings in the Bible when it doesn’t square with our philosophies and judgments. We all want to reinterpret or be “as gods.” (original sin.)
I’ve read much in the comments expressing other people’s right to have love or life long love. I think we fall in “love” with the idea of how society sells us that concept.
We all know the NT words for love; (Strong’s translations) Agape- “Affection or benevolence – a love feast- charity- dear” Agapao- “To love in a social or moral sense.” Philadelphia- “Fraternal affection – brotherly love.” And Philea- “To be a friend to- have affection for (denoting personal attachment) as a matter of feeling or sentiment; while agapao is wider, embracing espec. the judgment and DELIBERATE assent of the will as a matter of principle, duty and propriety: the former being chiefly of the heart… (partial)
True love from God’s perspective based on these definitions is an act. It is doing what we’re called to do by means of perseverance and duty. Interestingly in that process true love is demonstrated over time and the heart follows suit. Love is a choice, it is the gift of free will that goes far beyond attraction.
If the Bible isn’t an absolute and love isn’t an absolute based on principles, then whose to say that the person in love with an animal doesn’t have rights? What about the person whose is drawn to children? While this is extreme and vulgar it points to the need of absolutes… even when I personally don’t like them.
What about the person given to violence? They are genetically prone to it, yet they are forced by society to control what it is that comes the most natural to them. “The assent of their will.” The case could be made for all of our weaknesses that we all have more than one of. It’s a life long battle for some of us, but it is in that sacrifice that God is glorified. Love is sacrifice, we know that from the sacrifice of both the Father and the Son. It seems to me that when we justify our weakened flesh we are acting in a “mocking” manner to the One who sustains the very breath and strength we use to do so.
My hat’s off to you for being gracious and accepting of the differing opinions. That is the mark of true love as spelled out by our Savior, “They will know you by the love you have for one another.” It’s good to discuss and search for the heart and will of God and when it is done in this manner, He is honored.
Thanks for allowing me to toss my two cents in the ring. God bless.
Very well stated, Floyd! I love how you show respect to Michelle and others of a differing viewpoint, while fully defending your own perspective.
Well done!
Hi Floyd,
I’m glad for your participation in the conversation here and I welcome your opinions, which you have stated graciously. I do have to respectfully argue,though, that I can’t compare “loving” an animal or a child or perpetuating violence as an accurate comparison to same-sex relationships. Having sexual relations with a child is something that is done explicitly with an intent to harm. Perpetrating violence against another human being is a crime – it is intended to harm another human being. In these two instances a victim is involved.
Engaging in a mutually consenting, respectful and loving relationship with an adult, on the other hand, is not intended to harm. It’s simply not accurate to compare pedophilia, rape and other violent acts that are intended to harm other human beings with same-sex marriage, which is conducted in love and with mutual consent.
More than a crime, violence is a sin under certain circumstances, even if the parties are consenting. That’s the point. Just because a choice is consented to by both parties, doesn’t mean there are no victims or that the choice isn’t a sin. Romans 1:26 “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:” Wouldn’t you agree that if God gives up on people they would actually be worse off than being a victim?
“Engaging in a mutually consenting, respectful and loving relationship with an adult,” doesn’t change the word of God. (Rom 1:26)
The relationship you describe as that “which is conducted in love and with mutual consent” implicitly ignores the true definition of love as I stated above. Agapao includes “the deliberate assent of the will as a matter of principle, duty and propriety.” Biblical principles are obvious.
Again, I’m the last guy to cast stones, but I have to call a spade a spade, even when it means I incriminate myself. God’s word is the final word, the Alpha and although we’re not there yet, it will be the Omega. It really comes down to believing His word. “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” It is in confession we find forgiveness.
Okay, I’m up to three cents now…
So I told myself I would not engage in a Scripture battle when I wrote this piece, but now, two days later, I can’t help myself. I’ll say to you what I said to someone who emailed me those same verses from Romans yesterday:
“I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.” (Galatians 2:21, NLT) “ For if you are trying to make yourself right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.” (Galatians 5:4, NLT)
I’d like to add this as well: in the Romans verses you quoted, I read a description of a vile abuse of sex, lust and corruption, rather than, as in the case of my two friends, a relationship based in love, sacrifice and mutual respect. There is a difference between what’s described in the Romans verses and the loving commitments that are formed in long-term, homosexual, monogamous relationships. Gay relationships are more than simply vile lust. I know it may not be in line with our traditional definition of love, but the relationship between my two friends is love indeed.
I’m onto at least three cents now, Floyd!
Okay, I’m down to my last few pennys here! And this will be my last reply out of respect for you and Who we serve. In the end you and I, along with probably all the other commenters, are family in Christ… You know what they say about not being able to choose your family!
Are you proposing that Paul, the theologian of grace, has changed his mind and is now saying the exact opposite from Romans 1:26?
If your going to quote Gal 2:21 then we must find what Paul is answering – this portion of scripture Paul is telling a story to the Galatians of how he called Peter out about being a legalist to the gentiles. Paul is making the case that Christ is the fulfillment of the law that is now written in the their hearts. (see 3:2)
To put the scripture you quoted in context, here’s verse 17 from the same NLT, “But what if we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then find out that we are still sinners? HAS CHRIST LED US INTO SIN? OF COURSE NOT!” And Gal 5:4 is still Paul trying to explain via the story of Sarah and Hagar from the LAW of how they are to live by faith in Christ (the fulfillment of the law) and not by legalism. (see the words of Christ to the Pharisees Matt 23)
Of course the most compelling words are from Christ himself. Matt 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the LAW or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but fulfill them.” Christ goes on to explain in the Beatitudes that sin is more than the actions, but even the thoughts.
Luke 10:26-28 “It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the LAW.” Christ’s words.
As for vile, even Paul referred to his physical body as “vile.” All of us sin in our weaknesses and all of us have them, just different ones. I’m not trying to condemn, I’m simply sharing what God’s word says, not me. I’m all about mercy. I too am the person in need of the stones being dropped, but that doesn’t change the heart of God and His word.
Okay, I’m out of pennys… unless some fall from heaven. And I have some potentially very upsetting news for you… You and I are a lot alike! I like the fire and I like the heart. That is your gift from God and He will use it for His perfect will. Congrats on your success and May our Father be lifted up through you, sister!
God bless.
“We love because He first loved us.” 1 John 4:19
Your love for your friends is seen. Looks like it was a beautiful day.
XO, Beth
Amen. And thank you, Beth.
For the past ~20 years I have lived in New York City and worked in publishing. It is inevitable that I know a great deal of gay men and women, and many of them have become my dear and beloved friends. Some are close as family. I know, because I have seen and because I have asked, that none of them have made a choice. They love who they love. It is very simple, and physical love is such a small part of the picture.
Now that I am in my 40s, I see a sameness among the longtime partnerships around me. Love has evolved into longstanding companionship, shoring each other up during the darkest of times. One friend lost his mother to dementia little by little over the course of nearly ten years. It was stark, grueling, and heartbreaking. Every other weekend he drove across three states to visit her. Every other weekend his partner was by his side, providing steadfast support built on two decades together. They are not married, and yet they are.
We all have the right to committed, enduring love with another. We all deserve to reach across space and hold our beloved’s hand without worrying that we will be judged or feared–or, in some places, killed. Again, friends, physical love is such a small part of the picture. Love is what shines through. If we are lucky, we find someone we want to build a life with, and then we must work toward living together honorably through joys and sorrows. We ply our trade and establish a family and care for one another during all that we must endure. We all deserve this kind of love. Not all of us will find it, and many of us will sustain losses along the way. But in caring for one another we carry out God’s work. How can we say that some should go without?
This is so beautifully stated, Sarah. Thank you for taking the time and thought to voice your views on love here. I love you!
Michelle, had to come by…and not sure what I want to say here. I grew up in a liberal home. I lived a liberal life. I met Jesus at 28 and continue to seek Him regarding what to do with all of it, meaning live, love and embrace His Truth. My Christian Faith and my compassionate, very open upbringing and life before Christ’s intervention often are at odds in this place called NOW…with Christians and Liberals (meaning those who just seem to hate Christians).
I really strive to hear Him. Because when I listen to Christians talk about gays, I hear hate. WHen I listen to gays talk about Christians I hear hate. My stomach gets sick and it gets hard to hear Jesus through it all. And it’s wearisome. I have made so many mistakes after coming to Christ in light of how to respond to my gay friends (in immaturity and zeal I was so mislead). But now I just seek to hear Him amidst too many voices.
Thank you for the post. I just love the friends God has given me. And you love the friends God has given you.
I also love His WOrd and believe Scripture is the foundation for Truth.
So, I love people…because I don’t know what else to do and it is sickening how people treat each other when they disagree. All this rambling to say, really…I don’t know what my response should be BUT continue to ask God to respond to all with grace and truth. And I will not forsake this side of heaven those He has not forsaken. Really I feel like I don’t fit in with Christians…yet I don’t fit in with Non-Christians. All because I spent half of my life with one and the second half trying to figure out the other…I think I will take my chances geting it wrong by just hiding behind His robe? Love, to you and your friends. In His Grace, Dawn
Dear sister in Christ,
Consider this a virtual hug. May God direct to a part of the body of Christ that feels like true home to you.
Dawn, how I love your vulnerable “I don’t know what to say” comment. It’s just real, and I so appreciate that.
As for “fitting in” and “not fitting in” with Christians and non-Christians, I so relate to that. There’s a good reason that my memoir coming out next spring will be titled “Spiritual Misfit.” !!
Love to you, girl.
I hardly ever comment on controversial posts, but I have to tell you, Michelle, how blessed I am to read the loving and grace-filled exchange happening in this space. I keep thinking this morning of a woman sprawled in the dirt at Jesus’ feet, hearing stones thud in the dirt, watching a crowd disperse, and hearing Jesus’ words (paraphrased), “Does no one condemn you? Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”
I’m that woman, face down in the mud, all sweaty and dirty. Different sins. But plenty of them. And I remember how God loved David the adulterer and Paul the murderer, and I have to trust that God’s got everything covered and, as someone said above, is able to sort it all out. We’ll all answer to Him one-on-one, face-to-face. Love you, friend.
I am that woman too, Sandra. And the woman at the well. Repentance is like shucking off that dirty, sweaty cloak and being made clean and whole by the waters of grace. Loving the one closest to me became a matter of accepting that agape love constrained eros love.
Oh I know, I know, Sandy – and I am not the writer of controversial posts … but here we are! So thank you, dear friend, for being brave and commenting today. And yes, aren’t we all that woman? So, so thankful for God’s grace.
Michelle,
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I feel blessed for you sharing your experience from this wedding and for sharing your heart. Yes, this is a political hot topic right now, but this marriage is really no different than any other—love and commitment and doing so before God.
Regardless of your view points on this “hot topic” I encourage you to read Torn—Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays vs. Christians Debate by Justin Lee. Instead of jumping down others throats on this topic let’s talk openly by understanding the other side and to respond in loving ways (as people have been doing in these comments—Thank You!).
God Bless you Michelle!
AnyDan,
Thank you for this comment, and yes, I did just recently read “Torn.” A good friend loaned it to me, and it really spoke volumes to me and, I think, helped give me the courage to write this post.
Thanks for coming by…
Michelle, thank you for your courage to write about homosexuality and for the love you feel for your friends. There are homosexuals in my family whom I love greatly. I appreciate your opening this dialogue. I have responded in part regarding this on your May 17th post and hope to write more later. I respectfully disagree with your viewpoints, based on what I believe is a Scriptural viewpoint, and I also say, Scripturally speaking, that I am chief of sinners. You will read this when you read my book– if I ever get it sent to you! Oh, I’m so woefully behind. But I do thank you again for letting us all speak truth in love. And I would hope that all Christians would agree that each of us is a sinner, each needs to repent, and each needs to treat each other in love and to gently come alongside and share truth to help each other overcome our sins. In the Scripture Sandra quotes just above, Jesus treated sinners with great compassion, understanding and love; still He said to go an sin no more. God always calls us to repentance, and I believe that He clearly states in Scripture that homosexuality is sin. But we don’t hurl stones; we keep asking God to removing logs from our eyes, and stains from our souls, and try to help each other overcome our sins. Ok….more later. Am truly running out of time. But I truly thank you, Michelle for the open and welcoming dialogue.
Blessings,
Lynn
Thank you so much, Lynn, for coming by and graciously sharing your thoughts here. I’m glad to have you as a contributor to this conversation!
Stacy, this is such a beautiful, heartfelt, transparent and truthful post. How I thank you for writing it. May God continue to bless you in your marriage and in your friendships with women. May you continue to speak truth in love, and you have a true understanding of that.
In His love,
Lynn Morrissey
BraveGirl Stacey, you are indeed brave in so many ways, and I thank you so much for sharing your story here today. There is so much to consider in your comment, and I will be the first to admit that I don’t know a thing about agape and eros and all the Greek love terms (but I will be exploring it more because of the conversations here, that’s for sure). And can I just add that I am happy for you. Truly.
Hi Michelle! I visited your blog for the first time on Friday. Wow! I admire your courage, your transparency and your heart. Your love for God and your friends is evident. I don’t think anyone who has commented above would disagree with the following answers:
Does God want us to love your friends? Yes
Does God want us to judge your friends? No
Did you dishonor God by attending your friends wedding? No.
Are your friends sinners? Yes
Is everyone else on the face of the planet a sinner? Yes
Is their sin any worse than anyone else’s sin? No
Did you dishonor God by your post? No
Jesus said, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone.”
But, here is where it gets sticky…Is their marriage ordained by God? We have to be careful here and defer to God for truth…not our own feelings.
The truth over 2,000 years ago is still the truth today…God doesn’t change nor does His Word. The Bible makes it clear that sex outside of marriage is a sin. (I’m guilty here…I lived with my hubby before we married and he was not my first.) The Bible also makes it clear that marriage was designed by God to be between a man and a woman. It is not possible for us to know all the reasons for God’s commands, but we can trust that He knows what is best for us. After all, His ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. I can think of a few reasons for marriage being between a man and a woman…so we can go forth and multiply, so we can leave a godly legacy, so children can be trained to function in society (family is the most basic unit of society), together men and women are a complete representation of God’s image (men have some of God’s character traits and women have others), and God made men and women so different from one another that we have to learn how to become less selfish in order to succeed in marriage.
You see, God is more concerned with our holiness than our happiness…our character than our comfort. God says, “He who loses his life will find it.” That means we must die to ourselves…we must choose obedience to God over what we want to do or feel like doing. Can love ever be bad? I believe so…if we love anything or anyone more than God or if we love someone for the wrong reasons (selfish reasons). God is the source of Agape love as Floyd first pointed out. This Greek word and variations of it are found throughout the New Testament. Agape perfectly describes the kind of love Jesus Christ has for His Father and for His followers: “Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.” (John 14:21, NIV) Agape is selfless love for another person without sexual implications. As a Christian, we are called to Agape love and it is only possible to love others this way if we allow God’s Agape love to flow through us. We should not confuse Agape with “romantic love”.
I firmly believe the one and only reason we are here on this earth is to be transformed into the likeness of Christ. This is not our home.
I am sorry this is so long. I love you Michelle. I want to thank you for sharing this post and encourage you with this…you don’t have to choose between loving your friends and siding with truth. It is your job to show them Christ’s love. It is the Holy Spirit’s job to convict them (and us) of sin. Keep on seeking and sharing!
Thank you Staecy! I know from first hand experience how hard it is to choose obedience to God over what makes us happy. My husband was verbally and emotionally abusive…and many people feared for my physical safety, myself included. When I asked him for a trial separation, he retaliated by filing for divorce. We were separated for nearly a year, and just days prior to signing the divorce decree, God convicted me to talk to to my husband and ask him to put an end to the legal proceedings. Let me make this clear…I DID NOT WANT TO TALK TO HIM. In fact, I couldn’t wait to be free of him. Life without him had been so much more peaceful and joyful. The last thing in the world I wanted was to have him back in my life. But, my faith had grown a lot during the year we were separated and my desire to be obedient to God was greater than my desire to be happy. Well, God blessed my obedience and now my husband is a believer and our marriage and family have been transformed. We still have our challenges, but we are building our house on rock. Choosing God’s path is ALWAYS best!
Beautifullly, transparently, truthfully stated, Donna.
You love your friends. You supported your friends. They have chosen commitment and that choice is honorable. I have a good friend who lived and worked in San Francisco for many years and had many gay friends. She would often read scripture at their weddings. I asked her once why she did that, as she is in my denomination and has a seminary degree. She told me, many years ago now, that she wanted to do all she could to support people who were making ‘choices in the right direction’ – moving from multiple partners to monogamy, for example – and that she trusted God with the end results. (Much like the commenter above who said that there is so much more to committed relationships than the physical connection) I do not have the answers to this huge dilemma in the church. I only know that I don’t know what the answers are. As an ordained pastor in a denomination that believes marriage to be between a man and woman, I could not and would not perform this ceremony. Like my friend, however, I would be grateful for their commitment to one another, for moving in the direction of monogamy.
I must admit that it is tough to fathom why the ‘sexual sins’ have been given such a dominant position in church teaching when they are most often contained in lists in the NT – lists that also include sins like greed and gossip. Yet we don’t seem to believe that either of those are on par with homosexuality. We don’t even seem to think that adultery is on par with homosexuality. I am trying to trust that God will work through all of this dissension and direct the church to Truth and to Grace. Thank you, Michelle, for stepping into the fray with this beautiful and gracious post. And thank you for your kind responses to all who have commented. It is discussions on this level that must continue to happen. And I believe that those discussions must also include Christians who are gay. If we don’t hear their hearts, if we don’t make some effort to understand what it is like to be gay in the church, how can we possibly sit in judgment? Words like yours open the door to that possibility and I thank you for that.
He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” (Revelation 21)
I am a late comer to this blog and a friend of Lynn Morrisey. The Scriptures from the Old Testament to the Gospels to the Epistles are clear about same sex sexual acts or behavior. One has to fiddle quite a bit to change the direct condemnations aimed at such behavior—just as one would have to do with adultery, fornication, incest, or bestiality. Jesus spoke of marriage as a man and a woman becoming one flesh, something no two people of the same sex can become. He made it clear that His Father’s intent in creation was to give both humankind and the animal kingdom physically complementary partners. They are also complementary in other ways.
Love and sexual relations are not necessarily synonymous. There are other loving relationships where sex does not play a role. True godly love would even deny itself in order to protect both one’s self and the other from transgressing against God, His will, and His commandments.
Leviticus 20: 10-21, Matthew 19: 3-6:, and Romans 1:21-27 cannot be clearer or simpler in language. I do have a degree in Biblical Education and have studied Greek and Hermeneutics (the science of interpretation). Romans 1 does not leave room for any conditions, such as consensual love. Just as there are no conditions for other sexual immoral acts (heterosexual or other), there are none for same sex sexual acts. Have we forgotten that Jesus said “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.”
Lastly, however, despite the fact that some choose to be identified by their sexual orientation, they are whole and complex human beings. It’s too bad they choose to self-identify by one area of their lives and not their total personhood. They deserve our love as well as God’s truth and not any ugliness, rudeness, or name calling—just as we resist and deny the label “homophobic.” We must give every effort to balance truth and love and truth in love, but we dare not omit one or the other.
Being real, as you are . . . this is such a beautiful act of worship, Michelle. It’s so important. It’s serving God by being you, not serving the opinions of others. Rich blessings on being you.